Tai Chi takes 10 years?

[Bob Patterson]

In preparation for my once-a-week Tai Chi class I've been boning up on my reading. Yesterday I was in Half Price Books and I'm fairly certain that I was leafing through this book by Dr. Yang.

He says something to the effect that it takes 10 years to master and be able to use the martial aspects of Tai Chi. I may have misinterpreted but the sense I got from skimming is that at 1-2 years you won't be able to use Tai Chi for self-defense.

So I'll throw this out to those of you who have studied Tai Chi: How long before you can start applying that which you are learning? And I'm not referring to the hippy-dippy Tai Chi that's usually taught at the local YMCA.

-B

[Rick Matz]

It's a large question. At once a week, it takes the average person a year just to learn the long form. So let's set aside someone only going to class once a week and pay attention to someone who is not only working hard on their own, but also attending many more classes per week.

We have some senior students who have been with my teacher for 10+ years. They go to every class she gives at the main school (3 a week), go to all the once a month special Sunday classes she puts on, and is there every time our Grand Master comes to visit which is once or twice per year. They're good at push hands and study the applications.

I highly doubt that they'd be able to defend themselves. They're heads are just not into that part of the practice. For them, it's more for health, stress relief, social reasons, etc.

On the other hands, there are a few students in the 2 to 4 year range who do all of the above, and I'm quite certain that they could hold their own in a self defense situation. They may not be able to step into a UFC match, but if someone seriously tried something on the street, I think they'd be in for a surprise.

So you get out what you want to put into it. Plus your teacher has to be willing and able to teach a complete, balanced curriculum.

For myself, I've been at TCC for about a year and a half. I'm a once a week guy. Sometimes not even that depending on what life is dishing out at any given time. I work hard on my forms and supplementary practices. At once a week, I don't get a chance to work a lot on push hands so I have to put my energy where I can get the best pay off.

In my youth, I trained a lot in Yoshinkan aikido, and if put into a self defense situation, I think my old aikido skills would re assert themselves but they'd be highly flavored with TCC.

[Dojo Rat]

Bob;
I had ten years of other arts before I started Tai Chi Chuan. I already had no problem with self-defense issues.
However, the subtleties of Taiji take a while to absorb. I imagine you know this from Chin Na already.
I would agree with many of the points Rick has already stated. Most people that try Taiji don't really know or give a shit about self-defense. It's mainly for interesting exercise and interpersonal interaction.
You however, have already pushed yourself to Black Belt level and have been tested. What you can expect to pry out of the art is far different than a newbie. With the help of Dr. Yang's chin na and TCC aplications books, you will start to get the concepts quickly.
What I learned is how not to go head-to-head, how to increase my close-range sensitivity, and yeild to find an opening and then come in hard and fast. The form will give you a different level of meditation than TKD forms. Better for decreasing stress. Also, after time, it is enevitable that you will be more curious about the philosophy and longevity aspects that internal arts provide.
Hope this helps!
D.R.

[Bob Patterson]

Thanks for the replies! I'm dipping my foot in this mostly for the stress relief. However I like to keep "martial" in the word martial art.

I'm still trying to figure Dr. Yang. With his Chin na he also touts the 10+ year mark to get to the internal side of things. All I know is that it is very subtle and takes a lot longer to learn than other martial arts I have experience in.

Both are good fits right now as I *try* to move up the managerial chain in a crappy economy (and hopefully out of Indiana). Still I wonder what my next big art will be? The one that I can do for another 10 - 20 years...

-BCP

[Rick Matz]

It turns out that "10 years" may be significant in mastering virtually anything. See Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell.

[Michele]

Hello, I have been following along the Kung Fu Convocation and decided to join. I started taking Tai Chi a few months ago at the gym. The instructor teaches traditional not "fad" Tai Chi. During the introductory lesson, the instructor indicated that it would take years before we would effectively use Tai Chi for self-defense. He made it clear to the class that his goals for the students were health and wellness. I had an ACL reconstruction eighteen months ago and was looking for additional ways to strengthen and protect my knee from re-injury.

My background is in Okinawa Kenpo (16 years) and I am finding Tai Chi challenging. I believe that it could take a person a year or longer to learn the Tai Chi long form. I can learn the pattern of an Okinawa Kenpo form quickly. However, we have worked on the first third of the Tai Chi long form and I can not seem to remember the first few moves. Sadly, Tai Chi class is only once a week.

[Bob Patterson]

It looks like I'll be learning the short form. This will be interesting to compare to what you are learning! Some of my background is in Taekwondo... I have a 1st dan in TKD and I hail mostly from the hard arts. Currently I'm studying Chin na at a Praying Mantis school. I still practice my Taekwondo at home. I'm mostly on the Tai Chi train because I need stress relief from my crappy job. Still, depending on where fate sends me, I would love to expand Tai Chi beyond the hippy-dippy metaphysical junk!

:-)

Anyhow, welcome to the forum! Another Kung Fu newbie like me!

~BCP

[Dojo Rat]

If you can dedicate at least a year to Tai Chi it will make ALL of your other arts better. I bet if you make it a year, you will continue to do it for a long, long time.
We'll be reading "Striking Thoughts" to see how it goes!

--And how is your knee holding up Michele?

[Michele]

Bob: Thanks for the welcome. I look forward to reading your future blog posts about Tai Chi classes.

Dojo Rat: My knee is slowly getting used to the transitional movements in Tai Chi. I am hoping that it will make my leg stronger over time. The ACL graft was taken from my hamstring and I fear that my right leg will always be weaker. You mentioned that Tai Chi will make all the arts better. That is good to hear. I was concerned that Tai Chi and Okinawa Kenpo were not a good mix. My instructor started out with karate but eventually gave it up to pursue Tai Chi. He thought that it would be difficult for me to practice both.

[Dave Chesser]

The answer depends on one's focus and commitment to training. If the focus of the teacher isn't even vaguely martial then 10 years won't be enough, nor will 100, because it will never happen. In order to develop martial skills, you MUST have a martial practice. Most taiji teachers have not practiced martially themselves because that isn't what attracted them to the art. Nor is it what attracts most students. So martial considerations almost never even enter the picture.

Assuming that the martial side of taiji is your focus, you could assume you'd have some reasonable skills in a year or so providing you practice hard every day and have frequent contact with a martially-oriented teacher. When I say hard I mean 3-4 hours a day and frequent contact would be several times a week, preferably in private lessons that focus solely on your weaknesses.

People who go to a group class once a week and manage to practice 30 minutes a day should look for another art IMO if martial skills are desired. Not saying that applies to anyone here but I see lots of people that can only manage that amount of practice and class time, and that's just not enough.Taijiquan isn't rocket science but it does take a stronger time commitment than other arts.

[Bob Patterson]

Michele -

The Tai Chi plan went south for the winter. The adjunct who by all accounts was traditional left. The person replacing teaches Billy Blanks Tai Chi. I have decided to start Praying Mantis in March or Feb. It will fit well with Chin Na. My sifu says if I do I'll be "complete". It will be fun to compare traditional Kung Fu to Taekwondo and the other systems I've trained in.

Dave -

Yes, my sifu would agree with you. He's not had experience with Tai Chi but knows people who have and basically told me the same thing after I asked him.