2 on 1 grips

[John Kirby]

Pat Parker and I and others have been discussing using the aikido wrist releases as a starting point for entry into judo throws. We often end up with a two hands on one side grip. Over the last 6 months I have been working on getting the muscle memories working on some of these. I have included some links below to some of the source material. I will try to codify what I have ended up using and why later this week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGtt08OZNVQ

A lot of Gene Mills videos are of a two on one grip.

http://formosaneijia.com/2008/09/06/sambo-smart-judo/

http://www.mokurendojo.com/2008/02/arm-drag-into-sumigaeshi.html

On the mat we often talk about 2 hands on a point but when standing it has not been emphasized as much. It seems to be a powerful option especially when coupled with the releases of aikido at the outset of the encounter.

[Mokuren Dojo - Patrick Parker]

Doh! You're giving them all our secret technology! ;-)

[John Kirby]

Yeah but if anyone has any ideas to make it better I am not proud. I will take constructive input from almost anyone.

[Nick Lowry]

Hi John --too cool -- nice kata otoshi from the rassler-- and sumi reminds me of one berliner taught in olden days-- releases and cross arm drag are very relevant -- releases may even lead you to Osawa's hand weaving applications-- lookin forward to seein more what youve been up to -- nick

[John Kirby]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idxnkqRprm0&feature=related

Gene Mills is a very nice technical rassler. The clip above is of him basically doing sasae tsuri komi ashi.

Explain more about Osawa's hand weaving.

[John Kirby]

When I am writing about these the set up at the out set is tori's right hand grips uke's right hand and tori's left hand grips uke's right shoulder, upper arm, elbow, neck, back, etc. Obviously if you reverse the grip then everything I wrote is then backwards.

I have these throws now working fairly well in randori:

1) kosoto gake (or gari)
2) de ashi harai
3) yoko othoshi
4) ko uchi mata - this is almost a makekomi type throw; get uke pulled tight (I reach my high hand over uke's back) to tori and then basically do a foward roll.
5) kibisu gaeshi - the ko uchi mata fails, so drop either the high hand from uke and go under the arm and grip the inside of uke's opposite (left) foot; or tori keep the high grip on uke and lose the grip on ukes right hand and grab uke's opposite (left) foot with tori's right hand. I have not decided which version of this is more effective or when to use one over the other yet.
6)kata guruma (or otoshi) like the rassler demonstrates (this requires tori to go to the inside of uke's arm)
7) sumi gaeshi also after the ko uchi mata fails (this is the video above that started some of this exploration)

If uke defeats the grip by taking uke's left hand and grabbing tori's right side (either elbow or lapel or shoulder) then,

1) tori take tori's left arm (the high grip) reach under uke's right arm and perform osoto gari reaching to uke's left leg.

2) if uke pulls away to prevent tori's grip on uke's left arm then tori can reach under uke's left armpit with tori's right arm, tori keeps a tight grip on uke's right arm and then sasae tsuri komi ashi by propping uke's right foot. (this is currently my personal favorite)

These throws I believe will also be effective but I have not spent enough time with them yet.
1) Seoi nage (like eri seoi nage) or seoi othoshi - not one of my favorite throws anyway; (this requires tori to go to the inside of uke's arm)
2) kani basami - also not a favorite
3) yoko wakare
4) uki otoshi - I think this will require tori to go to the inside of uke's arm
5) sumi otoshi ( I have played with this the most out of this list, really cool if it works but my percentage is really low.)
6) o goshi - maybe a stretch though especially if you stay on the outside of uke's arm

I think there is still a gold mine of information in the very first contact that is made with uke to end up in this same sided grip. I am also still looking for all the weakness to these (I was thrown with basically a gedan ate by a judo beginner one night when I was trying the de ashi harai from the same side grip). From a tournament perspective the five seconds on one side before a penalty is called could be a problem.

I am sure I messed up some left and right descriptors above so if it does not make sense, let me know.
I suppose now that I have perused the COCA site more this discussion should probably be under the judo or aikido group headline.

John

[Mokuren Dojo - Patrick Parker]

i didn't see osotogari on your list - this would, i think, be one of the easier ones to get working...

I've gotten some single-leg picks from this arrangement...

p

[John Kirby]

I listed an osoto gari actually done on the opposite leg form the same side grip. If uke grips tori with his free arm then tori can reach across and get a "reaching" osoto gari.

I have also released my distant hand on the sleeve and reached over tori to do osoto on the same side as the grip. You described this to me first. It is a very powerful version that I did not include in my list.